Posts by Had Enough

16

LIES in Current Watchtower!

by Eusebius Hieronymus in

jw
friends

after posting on the maximus nourishment for the spirit thread about elaine pagel's "the origin of satan" and "adam, eve, and the serpent," i check my mail and find the watchtower for august 15, and a qfr (whole page) answering the question, "for how long a period of time did job suffer.".

they say "job's suffering and its resolution may have occurred within a few months, perhaps less than a year.

" blah, blah, tribulation momentary and light, blah, blah, christ will himself finish your training.

Had Enough

Yes this LIE irks me big time!!!

How many times they will twist the words to give a wholesome, balanced image. They are the total opposite of that image.

So they say that df'd relatives "might lure us into unwholesome association". Just how "unwholesome" is a devoted father and husband who works hard for a living, doesn't drink, steal, participate in revelries, murder, commit adultery, abuse his wife or daughter and treats his mother (me) with the utmost respect and affection?

Yet his father and our daughter and my family still avoid my da'd son saying its up to him to "clean up his life"???? HE'S the one in the wrong and HE'S the one who's causing this family rift. Give me a break!!!!

I know they're caught up in the WT propaganda. My brother and his family are typical examples of JW's who have conveniently forgotten how much the WTS pushed 1975 and how it affected their job choices and their absurd statements at the door. But when I did once try to talk to my brother about these things bothering me, he quickly fluffed me off by saying I should talk to my elders and they'll help me out.....you bet they will....right out the door!!!!

Surely, as they keep up shovelling this "stuff" in the mags and in talks, that more and more will start smelling how bad it is.

Had Enough

8

Most here should find this funny

by Jeremy Bravo in

jw
friends

this is an exact copy of the letter given to me by the guy who was conducting my jw studies.

he gave it to me after i told him i no longer wanted to study with the jw's, in part because of their failed predictions and doctrinal changes.. .

but have not some of the beliefs of jehovahs witnesses undergone adjustments over the years?

Had Enough

Hello Jeremy:

Good to have you here and to see you have your blinders off. I'm glad you didn't throw this little gem away. It just needs to be filed away under "G" for garbage but still kept for future reference, to remind us why we no longer can possibly put our trust in this group of fools.

Several things jumped out at me in this "explanation" for their errors.

Jehovah leads or guides them to such understanding by means of his holy spirit. But to get the guidance of that spirit, they must cultivate its fruitage, not grieve or work against it, and keep responsive to its proddings.

So does this mean that when they have gotten "such understandings" wrong, that means they are taking responsibility for not being open to "cultivate its fruitage" and were grieving it and working against it?

If, as they say of God, that...

Jehovah has exposed his people to the light of truth in a similar manner; he has enlightened them progressively.

...does that mean that God has puposely directed or allowed them to think the reverse to what He wants the GB to know, to the destruction of lives and family unity, until He makes the light brighter for them to reverse their teachings to what it should be.

Are they saying that God is some kind of sadist that allows his devoted worshippers to hurt themselves and give their lives for Him for a MISTAKE?????? So that when they get things wrong, its God that has allowed them to teach us wrongly...ITS NOT THEIR FAULT!!!

..clear understanding of his will and purpose comes gradually. Thus, Abraham did not fully understand how Jehovah’s purpose in connection with the “seed” would work out. (Gen 12:1-3,7; 15:2-4; compare Heb 11:8) Daniel did not grasp the final outcome of the prophecies he recorded. (Dan 12:8,9) Jesus, when on earth, admitted that he did not know the day and hour that the present system of things would end. (Matt 24:36) The apostles did not at first understand that Jesus’ Kingdom would be heavenly, that it was not to be established in the first century, and that even Gentiles may inherit it.

So does this mean that God allowed these men, like the GB, to mislead their followers, God's people, to do things opposite to His actual will that might cost them their lives, until "God made the light brighter"?

And...

does the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses have had some premature expectations mean that they are not being led by God? Not any more than the disciples’ question about the imminence of the Kingdom in their day meant that they were not chosen and led by God!

BUT did the disciples questioning the nearness of the kingdom result in lives being sacrificied wrongly because of their error?..or cause them make decisions and choices that would adversely affect their old age?....or cause them to take a stand that would later on be reversed, so that then others wouldn't have had to suffer the bad effects of the choice that they did?

Well Jeremy...I never saw any essay like this one, but it sure sums up all the choice "explanations" they give to keep the masses following their every word, even though they have been wrong time and time again. I wonder if this is something official to show ones in your situation or is it something your study guide put together. Anyway, I'm glad you saw it for what it is...pure crap!

Nice to hear from you Jeremy and sorry I missed meeting you at the BRCI.

Had Enough

8

Sound Bites from BRCI #2 of 3

by Amazing in

jw
friends

in response to the account shared in sound bite #1, one former jw who is very active in the ex-jw work, asked a former bethelite if these gb men, and others in responsible positions, are at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to.

this was asked in response to some of the accounts given about how they deal with issues and eventually publish their finished products.. the former bethelite had to admit that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right.

not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine.

Had Enough

Thanks Amazing for your sound answers....none of the b.s. whitewashing....just calling it as it is.

Yes, my thoughts were too, that ones don't go to the Bethels with changing it in their minds, as I suppose most are like I was...devoted to the org as God's channel of direction on earth, and they want to be a part of it.

I guess I just think of how I felt when I first started to find out irrefuteable facts of the deceit and hypocrisy in their policies and the lengths they'll go to "save face", and all the errors in their doctrines and explanations of prophecies. I was totally crushed. So I guess I just expected that would have been their feelings too.

I had to "get away" from it so I wondered how could they not want get away too. I don't mean to sound judgemental...it just seemed that would be the action to take when your foundation is shaken.

I see what you mean though that some wanted to stay to see some change but eventuallly either just get caught up in it too or they do leave.

But as for the GB, I guess I just hold them in a higher accountability position. They are the ones discussing together what's to be done, (or not done as in the pedophile issures), what's to be taught, enforced, or "adjusted" (as with blood).

I do hope for the sake of those needing to see and feel justice being served, that the chipping away will cause significant damage in the "Great Tower" walls.

Thanks Amazing,

Had Enough

8

Sound Bites from BRCI #2 of 3

by Amazing in

jw
friends

in response to the account shared in sound bite #1, one former jw who is very active in the ex-jw work, asked a former bethelite if these gb men, and others in responsible positions, are at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to.

this was asked in response to some of the accounts given about how they deal with issues and eventually publish their finished products.. the former bethelite had to admit that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right.

not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine.

Had Enough

Hey MuzicmanCa:

BRCI stands for "Biblical Research and Commentary International" and is an association mostly of former JWs formed in 1983.

You can see what they're all about at their website http://www.brci.org

It's really helpful to those leaving or who have left the borg.

Had Enough
(edited for braindead spelling and word omissions-duh)

8

Sound Bites from BRCI #2 of 3

by Amazing in

jw
friends

in response to the account shared in sound bite #1, one former jw who is very active in the ex-jw work, asked a former bethelite if these gb men, and others in responsible positions, are at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to.

this was asked in response to some of the accounts given about how they deal with issues and eventually publish their finished products.. the former bethelite had to admit that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right.

not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine.

Had Enough

Hello Amazing:

I was very glad I attended the conference. I would have like to have heard these experiences too but time only allowed me one day there.

I have some thoughts and questions as a result of some of the discussions that I'll perhaps be able to ask you another time.

I do wonder about the question about these GB men, and others in responsible positions about "are they at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to?" The former Bethelite had to admit

that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right. Not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine.

I wonder, surely they go into Bethel with good intentions. When does this 'not caring' overtake them? and how could they stay and continue to bend to the powers-that-be if they have a first hand view of the hypocrisy and burdens being placed on the "sheep"?

I realize it was said they feel helpless...like cogs etc. but how can they cave in like that? Am I missing something?

I realize many of us stayed on as pubs for sometimes many years while knowing there was something wrong but for me,I blamed myself for a lack of strong spirituality and discouragement...AND...we did not have the "birdseye view" that these GB members have of the overall structure of the org. We did not know details of the deceipt and outright erroneous teachings. How can they stay on, seeing these things happening up front, knowing the details?

I know many of the Bethelites couldn't stay, and have left and all the more credit to them. But it baffles me how anyone, with a "trained conscience", as we all were taught to have (them included), could stomach the garbage going on (that we the ordinary "joes" would never have thought possible) and still pump out the daily drivel and deceipt.

I just don't get it!! How can they sleep at night?

Had Enough

13

April 2001 Service Report for Canada

by comment in

jw
friends

special pioneers (59): 118.2 av.

hrs., 83.3 av.

r.v., 3.0 av.

Had Enough

Hi there RunningMan:

These figures are very interesting to this fellow Canuck.

They certainly paint a different picture than the speaker taking the WT painted at the DC a couple weekends ago. He added into his talk some comments on how well we Canadians are doing in the world figures and everythings just hunkydory here.

Frankly, I'll believe these facts before I believe anymore twisted "facts" or "couching" from them again.

Had Enough

200

How Many States / Countrys Are Represented Here?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i am from houston texas myself.

Had Enough

Hi all:

From southern Ontario Canada here.

Welcome funkyderek!!Hope you enjoy it here.

Had Enough

76

Why Are You Here?

by larc in

jw
friends

the question, "why are you here?

" is simple enough, and your answer may be straightforward.

however, when i asked that of myself, i find that my answer is pretty complicated.

Had Enough

Hi larc:

I'm really glad you started this thread. It's a question I've wanted to ask for awhile now.

My husband asked me that and I explained my reasons to him but I wanted him to see the reasons others have for being here...some to help, some to get help, some to do both and some just for the fun of it.

I posted my reasons in another thread by Amazing about Making a Difference but I'll repost them here too for those who haven't read them in that thread.

Why do I continue to come here?

Since I started coming here, I've been learning things about the history of the borg's beginning teachings that I probably never would have found out on my own. I was too ingrained by the typical controlling methods of the borg to even think of searching out if they were right. I totally, unquestioningly believed. That which I couldn't and wouldn't follow (such as shunning) left me feeling defective, rebellious, unworthy of God's spirit.

Reading 'Crisis of Conscience' was the beginning of the opening up of my eyes. I realized there was so much wrong with the borg and then since coming here, I have read so many others express these same feelings, I could see that it wasn't "just me"...maybe I wasn't just rebellious and unworthy.

So forthe knowledge I have gained is the first and foremost thing bringing me here and keeping me here. And every day it seems, there is something more brought to my attention that I would have never dreamed the GB would have done, to deliberately mislead us in creating their own "doctrines" or rules. It truly flabbergasts me to find out where they have twisted someone's words to mislead us to believe these people agree with the borg on "blood", or "creation" and others.

It has been an amazing outlet for me to formulate my thoughts and to be able to express my emotions that have been on a wild rollarcoaster ride ever since I started on my road of discovery. To be able to have an opinion, or question, and to have freedom to express it is gratifying and therapeutic. That freedom is intoxicating.

Then a building-up of my self-esteem, from the borg-induced brow-beatings, has resulted from the interchange of thoughts with posters here and "meeting" others in the same boat as I am in.

It also encourages me so much to "hear" someone express their appreciation and gratitude for something I've said. That just urges me on to keep on digging away at learning more myself. I want to be able to help anyway I can to make others that are "lurking" here to feel the same freedom I feel.

I guess rather than having a need for revenge,I have a sincere hope that the borg will have to face up to #1.their deliberate misleading by their "couching" or twisting words which can only be called what it is...LIES...and to...#2.the lives lost as a result of their rules on blood and neutrality...and to...#3.the lives ruined by their dogmatic stand on protecting molesters {for only one reason..to protect their image}.....

...NO I really want to see them brought to their knees for all of the above reasons. Too many lives have been severely damaged or lost because of the pompous desire of control of a few.

I hope we'll all feel the gratification of seeing a profound affect on the borg, like a significant drop in numbers, as a result of the exposure of their skeletons on the internet and in the media.

I have a long way to go to overcome the waves of absolute sadness that overcome me when I think about, or talk about, how deeply it hurts to know how many years of my life have been wasted believing and trusting so naively in the purity and holiness of our self-proclaimed "spirit-directed caretakers".....BUT I am so grateful for the people here, who are committed to helping so many of us over and over, with information about the deceitful, deliberately misleading teachings of the borg.

I know I have so much life to live yet and I've gained so much for myself from this board, I want others to experience that same freedom I've found, and I hope that others will benefit from being here too.

Had Enough

28

Pasted from a jw board!

by claudia in

jw
friends

oh im going to puke, i did a copy and paste from aisnes db, all real jws.

the part where she says the awake and wt mags surpass a college education really sent me over the edge!.

"i have 5 children.

Had Enough

an offhand comment about high school, gradually grows into
a statement of precise fact regarding university. The WT, once
again, creates something out of nothing.

So one again folks...the WTS only has to say it, and the r&f jump all over it and say "yup, yup" that's right. I don't need an education.

I do attribute some of my writing ability (such as it is) to the training I received in searching out material and making up a talk. However, I attribute more of the ability to an extremely gifted teacher who nutured in me, a love for writing, and an interest in correct grammar, sentence structure and spelling.

The WTS also had me believe we had no need of an encyclopedia set (and I remember discussing this in great length with an encyclopedia salesman) since the WTS provided all the information of the world that we could possible need to know, in their magazines.

Now that my eyes are open, I am a sponge. And yes I too consider it a handicap at not having a University education but I am trying to make up for that by being open to all the avenues of information I can find, digest and filter through.

As for the woman who passed the high school equivalency with only a gr.9 ed....sorry WTS but that doesn't have anything to do with the mags...it has to do with aptitude. I also know of someone near and dear to me who passed the high school equiv. with only a few days spent in high school and went on to college without ever having read a WT or AW mag. so that example just doesn't cut it.

As for having a better vocabulary, I had a larger vocabulary that most of the elders in our cong. and we all read the same mags. Mine came from my education and love for reading novels, doing crossword puzzles...anything stimulating my mind. Of course, good little JW that I was, I didn't read anything scholarly or mentally challenging.

Yes I will agree though to some extent that the WTS helped those with a poor education to speak better but equivalent to a university education?...I don't think so!

The WTs will continue to grasp at straws to convince the r&f that they don't need an education and for the most part, they'll fall for it.

Had Enough

13

Making a Difference!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

some may ask themselves why they post on forums such as this one.

they may wonder what compels them to do so.

you may wonder what causes others to keep at this so frequently.

Had Enough

Amen to that Copernicus!!!

Just thinking about what the WTS has done and gotten away with over the years in damaging or destroying peoples'lives, in the name of being the vessels to make God's name known in the world, makes my blood boil.

To see them be forced to their knees to accept their accountability will be the ultimate vindication, and to see their grip undone on those still in their prison, will allow me to rest alot easier.

Had Enough